Retyped for your information is a press interview as well as some media coverage on the recent breakdown of negotiations between the Lubicon Nation and the Province of Alberta. We are presently working on an in-depth analysis of the negotiating process with the Provincial Government and will make it available to you in the near future. ************************************************************************ Fred Lennarson press interview on Lubicon/Provincial Negotiations June 27, 1990 *** The Alberta and Lubicon negotiating teams met yesterday morning and again this morning at the Bowker Building downtown. Back in July of '89, the Chief and the Premier agreed to proceed with negotiations between the Lubicon people and the Province and try and develop a package both the Province and the Lubicons could support. They would invite the Federal Government to participate, but they would proceed whether the Federal Government participated or not. We've been moving in spits and starts ever since, with a lot of talk but not any really measurable progress toward the goal of coming up with a package that both the Lubicons and the Province could support. So a few weeks ago, the Lubicons started working on a package themselves, a draft settlement agreement, several inches thick, with a series of attachments, covering all of the items which will have to be resolved for a final settlement to be achieved. We tabled that document with the Province three weeks ago. We had told them we were doing it so they expected it. They asked for a couple of weeks to review it. We were to meet last week to discuss it and they asked for yet another week saying that they were working on a counter-proposal to it. We met yesterday. They did not have a counter-proposal to table with us. They just advised us that they were in basic disagreement with the document and that they didn't think we were going to be able to negotiate a settlement of the differences, and they therefore proposed that we talk about an arbitration mechanism. They said that they would be meeting with Provincial Attorney-General Rostad yesterday afternoon and would be reporting to him. Negotiations are therefore at an end, have failed. There is no negotiated settlement, no hope for a negotiated settlement with either level of Canadian Government. The Provincial Government is proposing to talk about an arbitration model. They're talking to the Federal Government about it. The Federal Government tell them that the Federal Government will be getting back to the Province with a reaction to that idea in one or two weeks. And Mr. Rostad is discussing that idea with his Cabinet colleagues and will be getting back to us in a week or so. But from the Lubicon point of view, negotiations have failed to resolve Lubicon land rights with both levels of Canadian Government. Others are acting on their interests in the area to the detriment of Lubicon interests. The Lubicon people have no hope for a negotiated settlement at this point to protect their interests and they're going to have to consider their alternatives. (Question: Was compensation included in the draft settlement agreement?) The package mentioned compensation numbers, but the Province said the A- G found the compensation numbers unacceptable. But the compensation section on the draft agreement is one or two pages out of a document that's probably 300 pages long. Not only that, it was our expectation when we tabled this document that we would get reaction to it. If they didn't like our proposal on compensation or on anything else, they would make a counter-proposal. There were no counter-proposals. We were told to expect counter-proposals last week. There were no counter-proposals. It was our understanding going back to July of '89 when Premier Getty and Chief Ominayak first decided to use this approach that we would be negotiating a settlement that both the Province and the Lubicons could support. Nothing like that has happened. (Question: Was compensation from the Province or the Federal Government?) In the draft settlement agreement, there was money for compensation from both levels of agreement. The Lubicon position historically has been compensation from the Federal Government for lost programs, benefits and services and from the Province for the value of resources extracted from unceded Lubicon land. (Question: Are you at an impasse then if the Province is proposing arbitration?) One can argue that we're not at an impasse in the sense that we're talking about an arbitration model. However it is my personal view that the Lubicons' position is really no different than it was on October 14, 1988. That's when negotiations broke down with the Province and the passport control points were erected. The problem is that both levels of Government, with the Provincial Government more specifically now, but with the Federal Government as well over the years, has wanted to keep this thing under discussion while development activity proceeded apace. While we've tried to resolve this matter through legal action and negotiations and discussions of all kinds, the traditional Lubicon society and economy has been completely destroyed. The Lubicon people as a society have suffered incredible damage and they cannot continue to do it. They either protect their interests through a negotiated settlement, in my judgement, or they have no option but to protect those interests on the ground. One can perhaps argue that some form of independent arbitration will settle this matter. But in fact that hasn't been the history. Some years ago the Federal Government said they were using the Fulton discussion paper as a starting point. They were not. We proposed that Fulton be reinvolved as an independent mediator. They rejected that. Premier Getty proposed that we establish an independent tribunal. The Lubicons accepted it. The Province agreed. The Federal Government rejected that. The Federal Government proposed instead an independent mediator and they proposed some names, which both the Province and the Lubicons accepted. And then the Federal Government withdrew the names and we talked for several months about the idea and it went no place. So it is my conclusion -- at least with regard to what's happened in the past, which certainly guides Lubicon thinking in the future -- is that the Government has not engaged in serious discussion about arbitration models either, but that rather only used discussion of arbitration in order to drag this thing out and hope that the Lubicon people will go down the drain and no longer be of concern. (Question: Will the Lubicons accept arbitration?) A lot depends on what the proposal is and the frame of reference and so on. The last time the Federal Government was talking about arbitration they were talking about arbitration with regards to compensation only. They were talking about compensation only under Treaty 8 -- which the Lubicons haven't signed -- only since 1940 and only on the 25 square miles which was committed at that time but never delivered. It's the Lubicon position that they retain continuing aboriginal rights and that's the first question which has to be decided. And that question will determine much of what follows. If the Lubicons in fact retain continuing aboriginal rights, as they maintain, then they still own legal title to some 4,000 square miles of northern Alberta including the resources. If they only have outstanding treaty rights under Treaty 8, which of course they never signed, then the nature of their rights would be of a quite different sort. They would be with regard to reserve land, for example, and the resources on that reserve land. (Question: How does this affect Norcen's request to re-open the wells that were closed last December?) There has not been discussion among the Lubicon people on exactly what they're going to do now. This just happened. But there is little hope that the Lubicon people are going to agree to re-opening wells which have been drilled under Provincial leases and which are producing royalties for the Provincial Government. It is the Lubicon position that that land and those resources belong to the Lubicon people unless or until it's ceded. So I assume they will return to the position they've maintained all along -- namely if somebody wants to drill oil wells on unceded Lubicon land then they have to obtain appropriate permits and leases from the Lubicon people and pay royalties to the Lubicon people and respect Lubicon environmental and wildlife management laws. That of course is what caused Norcen to pull out in the first place. Contrary to what Norcen likes to tell people through their propaganda materials, they didn't pull out in an effort to facilitate Lubicon negotiations with Government. They pulled out because the Lubicons told them that they had to recognize Lubicon jurisdiction, take out appropriate permits and leases from the Lubicon people, or, if they didn't do that, their developments would be removed as unauthorized. (Question: Have the Lubicons decided what they are going to do now?) We are expecting in the next week or two a proposal from both levels of Canadian Government about a possible way to arbitrate these issues. There are Lubicon people on the negotiating team, of course. They attended these sessions. They are now in transit on their way back to Little Buffalo Lake where these issues will be discussed. It's not at all hopeful. What we've experienced with both levels of Government is that they feint and bob and weave and want to talk about something else whenever something's coming to a crunch. But we have no evidence that we have sincere intention here to negotiate a settlement of Lubicon land rights. Rather they seem to want to out-manoeuvre and outlast the Lubicon people so that the Lubicon people go out of business. So I don't know exactly what the Lubicon people are going to do. They're obviously not going to do it tomorrow because it will take a while to gear it up. But it is my perspective that these developments leave the Lubicon people in exactly the same place that they were at on October 14, 1988. I can see no difference. There's no hope for protecting their rights through a negotiated settlement. There's no hope of achieving effective redress through the Canadian courts. I would suggest that there's no hope of ever even achieving agreement on an arbitration mechanism -- in which case, if the Lubicon people want to protect their rights, they have no choice but to protect those rights on the ground. (Question: Does that mean another blockade?) There are different ways that the Lubicon people could seek to protect their interests on the ground. Whether they would choose to erect what they call passport control points, as they did last time or not, is a tactical matter. It's the same kind of proposition facing Canada when the United States is running ice-breakers in the far north. You've got different choices for dealing with issues. You can blow them out of the water. You can send somebody to do something symbolic. You can file diplomatic protests. You can do different things. I'd be a little surprised, frankly, if the Lubicons did exactly what they did last time because it was very clear when the RCMP moved in with their helicopters and their dogs and their sub-machine guns and their shotguns and sniper rifles and so on that the Lubicon people are no match for the military might of Canadian Government, and that they therefore will probably have to do something other than just try and protect their traditional area by erecting passport control points. But exactly what they'll do is a tactical decision and they haven't made that yet. They've talked about all kinds of options since the RCMP moved in, and what they would do if they had no choice but to protect their interests on the ground. But what they'll do, that decision has not been taken. (Question: Can you say more about what is in the draft settlement agreement?) I should wait until that document has been released. I expect that will happen, but I don't have authority to do it. We're not talking new numbers other than the numbers which have been discussed publicly in the past. But they've got different categories for costs and compensation, and it's split between the two levels of government. I'd have to look up the details, but I think it's probably better to wait until the whole document is released. (Question: Decisions will now have to be made by the Lubicons on what happens next?) And we have to see what both levels of Government do too. I'm not at all optimistic that the Government is going to come back and agree that an independent tribunal should consider the question whether the Lubicons retain continuing aboriginal title. They've consistently refused to do so in the past. Fulton made a similar proposal in 1986. He proposed that the question "Do the Lubicons retain continuing aboriginal title" be referred to the Supreme Court of Canada on a direct reference. Neither level of Government would support that. ************************************************************************ Transcript of CBC Radio News Broadcast (7:30 A.M.) Thursday, June 28, 1990 Phil Henry, CBC News Lubicon Indians and the Alberta Government appear headed for another confrontation. The Lubicon Indians are getting ready to defy the Alberta Government again. Land claim talks with the Province collapsed yesterday. The Indians claim the Province was never serious about negotiating. Fred Lennarson, the advisor to the Band, says now that talks are dead, the Indians will take what he calls action on the ground. Fred Lennarson, Lubicon Advisor Basically, the Lubicon position is that if they can't protect their interests through a negotiated settlement, then they have no choice but to protect those interests on the ground. That is another way of saying assertion of their own jurisdiction, which they sought to do of course in October of 1988 by erecting passport control points. I don't know if they'll use exactly the same approach to enforce their jurisdiction or not. I think probably not. I think they'll use a different approach which will be tougher for the Government to respond to. But it is basically the same proposition. Henry The Indians put up barricades on their traditional land in northwestern Alberta for six days in the fall of 1988. They wanted a stronger position in land claim talks. They also wanted to force oil companies off land they claim belongs to them. ************************************************************************ Transcript of CBC Radio National News Broadcast (7:00 A.M.) Thursday, June 28, 1990 CBC National The Lubicon Indians and the Alberta Government may be heading for a confrontation. The Lubicons want to settle their land claim with the Province, but the negotiations have broken down. In the fall of 1988 the Band used road blocks to stake their claim. Now the Lubicons are saying it could be time for more action. Byron Christopher reports. Byron Christopher, CBC News Fred Lennarson, an advisor to the Lubicon Indians, does not speak highly of the Alberta Government. He says the Province has either been playing games, buying time, or trying to talk them to death. In early June the Lubicon Indians gave the Alberta Government a comprehensive proposal. The document was as thick as the Edmonton phone book. The two parties had been negotiating for about a year, but the document was a move by the Indians to sort everything out and put in writing its land claim. Fred Lennarson: Fred Lennarson, Lubicon Advisor I think what's happening is that the Province would genuinely like to see a settlement to this thing, but they can't do it without Federal Government cooperation, and there is no Federal Government cooperation. What they've been trying to do is keep the Lubicon people around the negotiating table, because the alternative to talking is action on the ground. Christopher Action on the ground is another way of saying the Indians will again try to assert jurisdiction on oil-rich land they claim belongs to them. The Lubicons are not tipping their hand yet as to what they'll do. Byron Christopher, CBC News, Edmonton. ************************************************************************ For more information contact web:car by e-mail or in writing Aboriginal Rights Support Group Committee Against Racism P.O. Box 3085, Station B Calgary, Alberta T2M 4L6