The following is a transcript of a program called "Homestretch" on CBC Calgary AM 1010, of September 20, 1990, sometime between 5:30 and 6:00 PM. While some of the comments deserve a more extensive reply (or comments from the readership), like the assumption that Cpl. Lemay was shot by a Mohawk, it gives a good insight in the present day situation in Quebec, the relationship between the natives, media, police, the Federal Government and other parties involved. ************************************************************************ Sharon Edwards: (The media have been accused by Michael Dungey of the Calgary Police Association) of biased reporting about the Mohawk standoff in Quebec. Roman Cooney has been in Quebec and Ottawa for the last six weeks reporting on the situation for the Calgary Herald. I talked to him earlier. Hi Roman! Roman Cooney: Hi Sharon! Sharon Edwards: Good to talk to you again. Roman Cooney: Good to talk to you. Sharon Edwards: I know you have been covering this story. Have the police been treated fairly by the media? Roman Cooney: UMMhh, I think they have been treated fairly, but they haven't, ahh, I don't think they have gone out of their way to make a case for themselves. Sharon Edwards: I was talking to Mike Dungey (President of the Calgary Police Association) just a little over half an hour ago and we were talking about the same thing. I said, what is it, is it a PR problem? Are the Mohawks better at putting the message across than the police are? What would you say to that? Roman Cooney: Well, I don't know if it's a public relations problem. My dealings with the Quebec police while I was in Ottawa and Quebec suggested that they were not particularly interested in talking to the media. In fact, I was flatly rejected one day when I went up to one of the official spokesmen for the Surete du Quebec and he said "No, I don't want to talk to you." It may be true that they have a case to be made, a point to be made, but as I say, they appear, anyway, to be more inclined to just keep their mouths zipped shut. Sharon Edwards: I know that in this ad, the Police Association is running, it says that no shots were fired by the Quebec Police. It that your understanding of the situation as well? Roman Cooney: Well, not at all! When I read the ad I went back and checked the reports from the Ottawa Citizen and the Montreal Gazette and they both indicated that shots were fired. I read something today that also indicated that some, at least a couple of the officers have admitted that they shot at the Mohawks. I am not going to say that the Police Association is wrong, but what I will say is there is room for disagreement. Another point that I think should be made is that the Association suggests that one of the reasons the police backed off was that there were women and children at the barricades. But the report at the time suggests that they backed off because the wind changed and the tear-gas they had fired was now coming back at them. I want to make it clear, I mean, I am not putting down the police here, I, in some respects, sympathize with them, ahhmm, because perhaps their case, their story hasn't been told that well. But this particular ad, I think, is a little bit shaky, Sharon. Sharon Edwards: Okay. Tell me about the mood in Quebec right now. Do the Quebecers support the natives at all? Roman Cooney: Well, my understanding of the mood and, in fairness, I don't speak French, so I didn't speak to many Quebecers, but, from what I gathered working there, Quebecers have a much different perspective on this than do English speaking Canadians. I gather they're much less sympathetic to the Mohawks, I think they support Premier Robert Bourassa's decision to bring the army in, and I think that they would like to get this thing over and done with, even if it means something drastic on the part of the army. Sharon Edwards: Something drastic meaning, we go beyond the bounds we've already seen with rocks and fists and this sort of thing? Roman Cooney: I mean they march in and start shooting - that's exactly what I mean. Sharon Edwards: Okay. How about the people of Quebec in their reaction to government. Do they think that the Federal Government has done enough? Roman Cooney: You have to remember that really the show is being run by Bourassa. The Federal Government is almost a side show in this and it's unfortunate because I think Canadians expect more from the Department of Indian Affairs and the Prime Minister. But, if you are in Quebec it very clearly is a show being run by Bourassa. They are the ones that brought the army in, they are the ones that control the Surete, it's really their ballgame. I don't think they perceive the Federal Government to be a major player in this. Sharon Edwards: What about the natives themselves? Are they on line with this as well? Roman Cooney: Well, they would like the Federal Government to step in and assume more control. Partly because they perceive it to be a national issue and not simply one that Quebec has to deal with and partly because they think that the Federal Government can do something about the army if they wanted them to. I don't know if that's true or not, but I know that that's what the natives would like. Sharon Edwards: Do you think the natives are prepared to compromise at all? What's your feeling on that? Roman Cooney: I think they are. In a nutshell, and remember, this is a very, very complicated issue, far more complicated than the police ad would suggest, in a nutshell, what the natives there want is some guarantee, some assurance, that the larger issues involved here, which are things like sovereignty and the right to self-determination, control over things like education, and, some of them, frankly, even want to go more than that, they want to set up their own separate countries, nations, in the largest sense of the word - that is what they are asking for before they lay down their arms. They want some assurance that it will be done. And the Federal Government has indicated that it is willing to at least talk about these things but not until the arms are put down. The arms, in some respect, are the Mohawks' last card. Once that's gone they believe they're out of the game and they may be right. Sharon Edwards: That also seems to indicate that amnesty isn't as important an issue in this as some may believe. Roman Cooney: My gut feeling is that it's not. I'm sure that some of them would like it, for obvious reasons. I don't think it's a dealbreaker. And that's just my impression after six weeks of talking to natives every single day, and government officials every single day. I think they would be willing to compromise on amnesty. Let's face it, they're not idiots. They know that one way or another they are going to be jailterms. Somebody has to go on trial for the death of Cpl. Lemay at the barricades on July 11th, there are going to be repercussions, but I don't think that that's the major issue any more. It's the question of "How are we going to deal with the larger issues?". Sharon Edwards: Okay. If we're back at larger issues we're back in Ottawa again, though. Have you had a chance to talk to Tom Siddon, and if so, where does he stand? Roman Cooney: Well, I talked to him a couple of times and I also covered several of his scrums, as they call them on Parliament Hill. I think he is willing to talk about some of these things, but as I say, not until the arms are down. It's a very tricky problem for the Federal Government - they can't be seen to be caving in to the Mohawks, and yet I am sure they genuinely don't want to see any bloodshed either. I honestly don't know how you get around that problem, but I think they are willing to talk about it, and he has expressly said, and I have reported, that they are willing to talk about things like sovereignty, which is a huge step for the Federal Government, but not till the arms are down. Sharon Edwards: Okay. An opinion on this if you are willing to go for it - is it your feeling that he is sincere when he says he hears what they are trying to say? Sharon Edwards: I don't know! I'll be perfectly honest with you, one night I covered a meeting in which Mr. Siddon sat down with about 300 chiefs from across Canada and it was a real roll-up-your-sleeves-let's-talk-turkey-kind-of- a-meeting and he took a lot of heat from them and he showed a lot of grace under pressure and at the end of the night he gave quite an eloquent speech in which he suggested that he understood their problems and he was working towards them. But then a few minutes later when we scrummed outside the building and all the cameras were on and all the media was there and the microphones were in his face he got real tough again and said "I have not changed my resolve! The arms must come down! Bla, bla, bla, ...." Basically an echo of all the things I have been hearing over the past month. So it was like a step forward but then quickly a step back. And after that I can't honestly say that I am 100% convinced of the sincerity of the Federal Government, and it also drove home the point to me why natives don't believe that, just because the government says something, they'll actually follow through on it. Sharon Edwards: Do you see any parallels between the situation in Oka and the situation with the Peigan Lonefighters here in Alberta? Roman Cooney: I think there are some parallels. I am sure, my impression is that most natives do not support violence. They are against taking up arms to press their cases. But at the same time they feel so strongly about the issues involved that they are willing to tolerate it. So, with respect to the Peigan, I am sure there are a lot of natives who are saying "This is not the way to do it. This is only going to bring us more grief sometime down the road." But on the other hand they are also saying "You know, we have all been there. We've all tried to do things the legal way, we tried to go by the book, we tried to play the rules and we got stomped on every single time. Maybe, maybe this is the way to do it. There is the parallel to Oka. Most Mohawks that I talked to would rather be going about their lives and they'd love to have this all over. But they feel so strongly about what these people are fighting for that they are willing to put up with it, anyway, for a little while longer. Sharon Edwards: That's part of the problem, isn't it. They feel strongly on their side, the government can't be seen to be giving in to quote terrorist unquote activity. In the meantime nobody moves. Roman Cooney: Yeah. I have to confess, before I went to Ontario and Quebec to cover this stuff I had no idea whatsoever about how strongly natives feel about this. I don't think most whites can comprehend just how frustrated and angry natives are about the way they have been treated. I don't think Micheal understands that, with all due respect to Michael, in fact, I talked to him while I was in Ottawa.. Sharon Edwards: This is Micheal Dungey (President of the Calgary Police Association) you are talking about? Roman Cooney: Micheal Dungey, yeah, and wrote the story, he says was not written. I did do a story on the rule of law and whether or not the government had an obligation to move in and end the uprising right away. But I don't think Michael understands and I certainly did not understand till very recently that this is as close to the heart for the natives as you can possibly get. Sharon Edwards: Thanks Roman, bye, bye! Roman Cooney: My Pleasure! Sharon Edwards: Roman Cooney is an editorial writer for thew Calgary Herald. He spent the last six weeks in Quebec and in Ottawa reporting on the Mohawk standoff. ************************************************************************ For more information contact web:car by e-mail or in writing Aboriginal Rights Support Group Committee Against Racism P.O. Box 3085, Station B Calgary, Alberta T2M 4L6