Lubicon Lake Indian Nation
Little Buffalo Lake, AB
403-629-3945
FAX: 403-629-3939
Mailing address:
3536 - 106 Street
Edmonton, AB T6J 1A4
403-436-5652
FAX: 403-437-0719
September 08, 1991
Enclosed for your information is a copy of a memo to file on a
recent meeting with representatives of Daishowa. The memo
provides insight for people wishing to engage Daishowa on the
Lubicon issue.
The bottom line of the meeting was that Daishowa doesn't plan to
clear-cut the unceded traditional Lubicon territory this fall
under its own name but does plan to do so through its wholly-
owned subsidiary Brewster Construction. It of course matters
little to the Lubicon people whether Daishowa plans to clear-cut
the unceded Lubicon territory directly or through sub-contractors
and subsidiaries.
A transcript of the meeting, providing more detail on the verbal
back and forth but lacking contextual and other comment, is
available upon request.
* * * * *
MEMO
TO: File
FROM: FL
DATE: September 04, 1991
RE: September 04, 1991, Meeting with Daishowa
The Vancouver meeting was requested by a coalition of
organizations concerned about plans by Daishowa to clear-cut in
the unceded Lubicon territory this fall. Their request was
handled for Daishowa by Daishowa's man in Edmonton, Jim Morrison,
who had apparently been flown to Vancouver for that specific
purpose.
Initially Mr. Morrison told coalition representatives that senior
Daishowa management were out of the country but that he'd be
personally prepared to meet with a delegation of no more than
three people. Members of the coalition discussed Mr. Morrison's
position and decided that it would take a delegation of at least
six people to properly represent the variety of autonomous
organizations wanting to make submissions to Daishowa.
Following a Lubicon support rally organized by coalition members,
a number of people from the rally walked the block or so from
where the rally was held to Daishowa's Vancouver office to advise
Mr. Morrison that three people were not sufficient to represent
the variety of autonomous organizations involved. They were met
at the front door of the Daishowa office building by an uniformed
security guard with instructions from Mr. Morrison to allow entry
to no more than three people.
After some discussion with the security guard Lubicon Chief
Bernard Ominayak suggested that Darryl Klassen from the Mennonite
Central Committee be delegated to go discuss the size of the
coalition delegation with Mr. Morrison. The security guard
agreed and allowed Darryl Klassen to enter the building.
Mr. Morrison met with Darryl Klassen in the front reception area
of Daishowa's suite of offices and told him that Daishowa didn't
have sufficient room to accommodate a delegation of more than
three people. Darryl Klassen rejected as ridiculous Mr.
Morrison's claim that there wasn't sufficient room in Daishowa's
obviously huge office complex to accommodate six people and told
Mr. Morrison that a minimum of six people would be necessary to
represent the variety of autonomous organizations wishing to make
representations to Daishowa.
Mr. Morrison excused himself, climbed some open-sided stairs
leading to a second level in Daishowa's office complex, passed
through a double set of glass doors and disappeared into a room
which later turned out to be a good sized meeting room
overlooking Vancouver harbour. A couple of minutes later,
clearly having checked with somebody, Mr. Morrison reappeared and
told Darryl Klassen that six people were "acceptable".
Darryl Klassen reported back to the people waiting in front of
the Daishowa office building and six people were selected to meet
(supposedly) with Mr. Morrison. The six people selected to meet
(supposedly) with Mr. Morrison were Bernard Ominayak, Lubicon
Advisor Fred Lennarson, Darryl Klassen, Mavis Gillie from the
National Anglican Church, Judy Nutley from the Human Rights
Committee of the Japanese Canadian Citizens Association and
Hubert Grundner representing concerned European environmental and
aboriginal rights groups.
Upon arrival in the Daishowa suite of offices the six coalition
representatives were asked to proceed up the open-sided stairs to
the double set of glass doors where they were met by a formal
Daishowa receiving line consisting of Mr. Morrison, Daishowa
"Director" Alec Robertson, Daishowa "Consultant" Henry
Wakabayashi and Daishowa "Administrator" Teresa R. Kobayashi.
(After the meeting was over Darryl Klassen observed that a
coalition delegation of three people would have been nicely
matched by the waiting Daishowa delegation of four people.)
Mr. Morrison's title is General Manager of the Edmonton Office
but it seems likely that what he really does is public relations.
It would be surprising indeed if his background was in the
technical or managerial aspects of the pulp and paper business
instead of public relations. Daishowa has no known holdings in
Edmonton to manage and all inquiries to Daishowa's Canadian
General Manager in Vancouver, Tom Hamaoka, are referred to Mr.
Morrison in Edmonton for response. Mr. Morrison's probably just
been given the title of "General Manager" because Daishowa knows
that people want to deal with senior management and don't like
being shunted off to some public relations flunky.
One thing that became abundantly clear during the course of the
meeting is that Mr. Morrison's not just making things up as he
goes along but is following official company line. Most if not
all of the erratic, inconsistent, factually untrue and at points
even contradictory things Mr. Morrison's been saying ever since
Mr. Hamaoka first started using him to deflect media inquiries
last November -- in the midst of the controversy over Daishowa
breeching the 1988 agreement with the Lubicons -- were repeated
during the course of the meeting by Daishowa heavy-weight Henry
Wakabayashi.
Mr. Wakabayashi ran the meeting for Daishowa, saying that he was
doing so on behalf of Mr. Hamaoka who was "unavailable". Mr.
Wakabayashi was the only one of the September 4th Daishowa
foursome who'd also attended the March 7, 1988 meeting at which
the agreement with the Lubicons was made. As he'd done at the
March 7, 1988 meeting, Mr. Wakabayashi described himself as "a
consultant to Daishowa".
Obviously not appreciating the careful way that Mr. Wakabayashi
was setting himself up to both speak and not speak for Daishowa,
Daishowa "Director" Alec Robertson blurted out that Mr.
Wakabayashi is also a member of Daishowa's Executive Committee.
(Mr. Robertson's other comments during the course of the meeting
displayed a similar lack of sensitivity, comprehension and/or
subtlety.)
Except for politely welcoming and bidding adieu to the six
coalition representatives, Ms. Kobayashi's didn't speak during
the meeting but assiduously took notes. Shortly into the meeting
it became clear that Mr. Wakabayashi was going to use the issue
of accurate notes to try and argue that no agreement had been
reached between Daishowa and the Lubicons during the March 7,
1988 meeting, or, at the very least, that there was an honest
disagreement over what had occurred at the March 7th meeting
rather than Daishowa being dishonourable and breeching the
agreement.
As Chief Ominayak was walking into the meeting a reporter from
Co-Op Radio in Vancouver gave the Chief a tape recorder. When
Chief Ominayak sat down at the conference table he placed the
tape recorder on the table before him and turned it on. Well
into the meeting the tape ran out. When Chief Ominayak turned
over the tape Mr. Robertson suddenly realized that a tape
recorder was sitting on the conference table in front of Chief
Ominayak and demanded that Chief Ominayak either shut off the
tape recorder or that the meeting be immediately brought to a
conclusion.
Mr. Robertson claimed that there'd been a pre-meeting agreement
that there'd be no reporters or tape recorders allowed at the
meeting. Fred Lennarson asked with whom the supposed agreement
had been made. Darryl Klassen said the only pre-meeting condition
he knew about was Mr. Morrison's condition that there only be
three coalition representatives. In light of the claimed dispute
over what had transpired at the March 7th meeting, Fred Lennarson
said that he thought it would be useful to have a tape recording
of all meetings with Daishowa.
At this point Mr. Wakabayashi hurriedly moved on to other matters
and the debate over the tape recorder ended. It wasn't clear
whether Mr. Robertson thought that Chief Ominayak had turned off
the tape recorder or whether Mr. Robertson's protest was simply
cut short by Mr. Wakabayashi.
Mr. Wakabayashi opened the meeting with a statement that he was
representing Mr. Hamaoka. He introduced the other Daishowa
representatives. He said that Mr. Hamaoka sent his apologies for
not being available. He noted that the meeting had been
requested by the coalition and therefore proposed that coalition
representatives speak first. He said that the Daishowa
representatives would "be pleased to hear your presentations and
to pass it on to Mr. Hamaoka".
Darryl Klassen said that no one was authorized to speak on behalf
of the coalition as a whole. Rather, he said, each
representative would be making a statement on behalf of his or
her respective organization. He suggested that Chief Ominayak
make the first statement.
Chief Ominayak said that it was too bad Mr. Hamaoka wasn't
available. Responding to Mr. Wakabayashi's introduction of Mr.
Morrison as someone "you know from the Edmonton office", Chief
Ominayak said "It's the first time I've met him, even though I've
heard a lot of remarks that are undoubtedly not true made by him
in the past". Chief Ominayak concluded by saying the purpose of
the meeting was to reaffirm the agreement that Daishowa would not
try to clear-cut in the unceded Lubicon territory until a
settlement of Lubicon land rights had been achieved and an
agreement made regarding Lubicon environmental and wildlife
concerns.
Mr. Wakabayashi said he was prepared to "make some comments on
behalf of the company" but that he'd first like to hear from the
other coalition representatives.
Judy Nutley indicated that she represented the Human Rights
Committee of the Japanese Canadian Citizens Association. She
said that she supported recognition of the aboriginal land rights
of the Lubicons. She said that she thought that "the matter of
aboriginal claims should be first and foremost dealt with". She
said that the rights of Canada's aboriginal peoples, and
especially Lubicon land rights, had been too long ignored. She
tied the struggle for recognition of aboriginal land rights to
the struggle of Japanese Canadians to achieve redress and said
that Japanese Canadians had an obligation to support aboriginal
people in their struggle until there is a resolution of
aboriginal land rights". (Mr. Wakabayashi was clearly concerned
about his own if not Daishowa's image in the Japanese Canadian
community and several times during the course of the meeting
appealed directly to Judy Nutley, referring at one point to his
involvement in the struggle to achieve redress for Japanese
Canadians and at another point suggesting that the Lubicon people
shouldn't be too impatient -- that it had taken Japanese
Canadians a long time to achieve redress.)
Mavis Gillie indicated that she represented the National Anglican
Church and Project North. She said that it was the position of
the churches that there must be no development on aboriginal
lands until land claims are settled. She said resource
exploitation companies often claim that they are "the ham in the
sandwich" in the sense that aboriginal land rights are a matter
to be settled between aboriginal people and the Government.
However, she said, the churches feel that a strong moral position
has to be taken by the companies and especially by Japanese
companies who claim to be "honourable people". She said that the
Churches are "amazed that the agreement made earlier (with the
Lubicons) not to log would be broken". She said that she thought
that the people of Canada are becoming more and more concerned
about aboriginal rights and that the relationship between Japan
and Canada would be "severely damaged by the actions of
Daishowa". She said that she thought Daishowa must take
responsibility for its actions and "not lay it on the
Government".
Hubert Grundner said he represented the Big Mountain
Aktionsgruppe and other concerned groups in Europe and that he
would like to present some letters from these European groups to
Daishowa, which he then did. Mr. Wakabayashi proposed to read
the letters on the spot but Fred Lennarson suggested that Mr.
Wakabayashi read the letters later and proceed with the meeting.
Darryl Klassen indicated that he represented the Mennonite
Central Committee. He said "We have people across Canada...and
have seen over and over again the destruction that resource
extraction has dealt to native communities where people who have
lived off the land in peace until large corporations come in and
extract the resources with no benefit going to the original
inhabitants". He said "Take away the trees and there's no more
wildlife -- no more living for people on the land". He said "We
have come here today as representatives of cultural, of
international, of church and of environmental groups to call
Daishowa to ethical action". He said "The lack of government
action doesn't excuse corporate citizens or private citizens from
ethical action or from moral imperatives". He said "These issues
of legitimate claims have to be settled before anyone can go in,
ruin the land and ruin a people in the process".
Fred Lennarson indicated that he had no independent statement to
make -- that he was attending the meeting with Chief Ominayak.
Mr. Wakabayashi said that he'd made note of the presentations and
letters and would "pass on your message to Mr. Hamaoka". He said
"I expect that you would be expecting some sort of reply and
we'll certainly make sure that happens".
Mr. Wakabayashi said that he'd reviewed his notes from the March
7, 1988 meeting, pointedly telling Fred Lennarson that the
meeting had occurred on March 7th instead of March 8th. (Mr.
Wakabayashi was obviously referring to a July 11, 1991, Lubicon
mail-out which incorrectly said that the meeting had occurred on
March 8th. It was the first of several attempts made by Mr.
Wakabayashi to question the reliability of Lubicon statements
about specific matters of fact, clearly in order to raise
questions about the credibility of Lubicon statements regarding
the existence of the March 7, 1988 agreement.)
Mr. Wakabayashi said that he's attended a lot of meetings over
the years and that he took "pretty good notes". During the March
7th meeting he said there was a lot of discussion, that the
Lubicons "presented some sort of background" and that Miles
Richardson of the Haida Nation and Aaron Greycloud of United
Native Nations had also made some comments. He said "I think
what we said at the time was that we'd certainly work with you
and try to keep you advised as to what the project plans were".
Then in a second transparent attempt to raise questions about the
reliability of Lubicon statements (and thereby indicating again
that he had access to Lubicon mail-outs), Mr. Wakabayashi said
"By the way, we didn't call that (March 7th) meeting " He said
"You
people were doing some demonstration downstairs and you
wanted to meet with us so you came up to the offices".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "I think you probably recall me asking you
how far your historical or traditional lands came, and I think
you said you'd come to the east side of the Peace River, and I
said that's great because we're going to be building on the west
(side of the Peace River)". However, he said, "in going through
my notes and talking with both Mr. Kitagawa and Mr. Hamaoka,
there was really no what I would call an agreement".
Mr. Wakabayashi said that Mr. Kitagawa had spoken to Chief
Ominayak on March 2nd (1988) and told Chief Ominayak that the
proposed Lubicon reserve area was excluded from Daishowa's Forest
Management Agreement with the Alberta Government. He said that
Mr. Hamaoka had since informed Chief Ominayak that Daishowa would
not log on the east (Lubicon) side (of the Peace River) until the
new Peace River bridge was complete, originally scheduled for the
fall of 1991 and now delayed for a year. This delay in
completion of the bridge, Mr. Wakabayashi said, "allows the Peace
River pulp mill to extend for a further year any plans to log in
the (Lubicon) area".
Regarding wholly owned Daishowa subsidiary Brewster Construction,
Mr. Wakabayashi said that Daishowa's Wood Resources Manager Wayne
Thorp had been trying to reach Chief Ominayak "on a number of
occasions...to explain the logging plans that (Daishowa) had for
the Brewster mill".
Mr. Wakabayashi denied that Daishowa was caught between the
Lubicons and Canadian Government "like the ham in a sandwich".
He said "I think we have made our position clear as to the area
that we would be logging in and I think whether it's ourselves or
any of the sawmills that have been in the area (with which
Daishowa has now either developed subcontracts or purchased
outright), I think that is still happening".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "We talk about agreements". He said "We
certainly had discussions and I think we're certainly keeping to
those discussions".
"We get into all of these discussions about clear-cutting", Mr.
Wakabayashi said, "and you can call it clear-cutting but we're
talking about aspen which is a deciduous tree and continues to
regrow through the root system". "The shoots", he said, "are up
in a year or two after being harvested".
Fred Lennarson said that he also took careful notes at the March
7th meeting, as well as before and since. He accepted that there
was an unfortunate but not particularly significant error in the
July 11th Lubicon mail-out and that the meeting at which the
agreement was made had occurred on March 7th instead of March
8th. However, he said, Mr. Wakabayashi was not correct about
who'd asked for the meeting.
Fred Lennarson said that Mr. Kitagawa phoned Chief Ominayak on
March 2nd and requested a meeting "in Peace River, Little Buffalo
or any place else". He said that Chief Ominayak responded by
proposing to meet at Daishowa's Vancouver office on March 7th
since the Chief planned to be there anyway on March 7th for an
already planned and announced demonstration.
Fred Lennarson said that Mr. Wakabayashi was also correct in
reporting that Mr. Kitagawa had told Chief Ominayak on March 2nd
that the proposed reserve area was excluded from Daishowa's
Forest Management Agreement with the Alberta Government, but, he
said, Mr. Wakabayashi was conveniently failing to report Chief
Ominayak's response to Mr. Kitagawa or the highly relevant
remainder of that discussion.
Fred Lennarson said that Chief Ominayak told Mr. Kitagawa that
the 25.4 square mile proposed reserve area to which Mr. Kitagawa
referred was only a small piece of unceded Lubicon lands set
aside as a partial reserve in 1939 but never actually made into a
reserve. Unless and/or until there was a full and final
settlement of Lubicon land rights, Chief Ominayak told Mr.
Kitagawa, the Lubicon people retained aboriginal land title to
some 4,000 square miles of traditional Lubicon territory
comprising about 1/3 of the timber lease improperly granted to
Daishowa by the Alberta Provincial Government. At that point,
Fred Lennarson said, Mr. Kitagawa specifically told Chief
Ominayak "I understand the extent of Lubicon land rights now but
didn't before".
In retrospect, Fred Lennarson said, it was now clear that Premier
Getty had told Daishowa not to worry about the Lubicons because
Lubicon land rights would supposedly be settled by the fall of
1989 -- well before Daishowa planned to harvest timber in the
unceded Lubicon territory. He said that Daishowa representatives
apparently took Premier Getty at his word and communicated the
Premier's assurances to Chief Ominayak during the March 7th
meeting. He said that Chief Ominayak responded to being told
about the Premier's assurances by saying "Well that's fine, and
hopefully that's right, but we've been at it for a long time and
we don't want any development in (our) area until there's first a
settlement (of Lubicon land rights) and secondly we negotiate
with you regarding the entire traditional area on the questions
of the environmental concerns and wildlife concerns".
When there was no settlement by the fall of 1989, Fred Lennarson
said, Daishowa started slip-sliding all over the place, first
trying to circumvent the agreement by working through
subsidiaries and subcontractors, and when that didn't work, by
now trying to deny the existence of the agreement.
Mr. Wakabayashi said "we won't get in an argument about the
(meeting) notes but that he did want to make the point "in
regards to agreements that you have to look at the context of the
times". He said "this is March 1988". He said "The Lubicons are
in negotiations with the Federal and Provincial Governments". He
said "Our pulp mill isn't going to start up for 2 1/2 years and
the bridge wasn't going to be built and we weren't going to be
able to access that area". He said "I think it was in that
context".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "We told you at that time that we wouldn't
be logging in there until the fall of 1989 or late 1989". He
said "that's the kind of time frame and that's the kind of period
of time in which this discussion took place".
Again challenging Lubicon statements of fact, and again pointedly
directing his comments at Fred Lennarson, Mr. Wakabayashi said
"you said in another letter that you handed out that this was a
negotiation situation". He said "It wasn't a negotiation
situation". He said "There was a lot of discussion but there was
not negotiation to reach an agreement". He said "You explained
your situation and we told you what our plans were and that was
the extent of it".
Lennarson rejected Wakabayashi's description of what occurred at
the March 7th meeting but said that in the last analysis it
didn't matter whether there was an agreement or not, or whether
Daishowa was or wasn't an honourable company, or whether Daishowa
employees were or weren't honourable people, or how Mr.
Wakabayashi chose to represent Daishowa's relationship with
Brewster or the type of meeting that was held on March 7th. He
said that the bottom line for the Lubicons, and the Japanese
Canadian Citizens Association, and the churches, and the European
support groups is no development on unceded aboriginal lands
until there is a settlement of aboriginal land rights.
Mr. Wakabayashi said that the only reason he'd referred back to
the March 7th meeting was to present the facts to the people
attending the meeting in support of the Lubicons. He said he was
sure they'd heard the Lubicon version and that he wanted them to
hear Daishowa's side of the story.
Mr. Wakabayashi then referred to an exchange of letters between
Chief Ominayak and Mr. Kitagawa following the March 7th meeting
in which Mr. Kitagawa wrote that he would keep the Lubicons
informed and Chief Ominayak wrote back that there'd apparently
been a failure to communicate but not mentioning any agreement.
Mr. Wakabayashi said that many things had been discussed in the
March 7th meeting, and that there'd been follow-up with maps and
letters, but that there'd been no agreement and that he "just
wanted the opportunity to be able to explain to you (coalition)
people our side of the story because the way it keeps coming out
in the press is that we were breaking agreements and aren't
honourable".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "I think we've been pretty honourable". He
said "That's the point I want to make to you (coalition) people".
He said "There weren't the kind of agreements that supposedly
we've been told in the press that we made". "And", he said, "I
think that's very important for you (coalition) people to take
into consideration in how you go forward and support the
(Lubicons)".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "You (Ominayak) asked Tom (Hamaoka) to get
involved and talk to the Government". Mr. Wakabayashi said "He's
done all those things". Mr. Wakabayashi said "He's followed
through on what he said he'd do". "And so", Mr. Wakabayashi
said, "I take real offense at being accused of not being
honourable because from our side, we feel that the discussions we
had, we've pretty well followed through with it". Mr.
Wakabayashi claimed "There was no basic agreement on which people
can start saying we have not met an agreement".
Chief Ominayak said there was indeed an agreement, not the kind
of legalistic agreement which Mr. Wakabayashi was talking about,
but, the Chief said, "there's no two ways about it -- there was
an agreement". He said that he'd spoken with Mr. Hamaoka again
last summer and pointed out to him there was an agreement. He
said that Mr. Hamaoka made no effort to deny that there was an
agreement.
Mr. Wakabayashi asked "A formal agreement?"
Chief Ominayak told Wakabayashi "I said there was an agreement
made". "It wasn't a formal, kind of written agreement but we did
have that discussion..."
Mr. Wakabayashi aggressively asked "Was it a discussion, Chief?
How did the discussion go".
Chief Ominayak said that Mr.Hamaoka stopped at the Lubicon office
on his way to see Daishowa's new Brewster sawmill. He said that
Mr. Hamaoka said he was going to start phoning to see where
things were jammed up. At that point, Chief Ominayak said, he
asked Fred Lennarson to send Mr. Hamaoka information on
negotiations.
"If that was the agreement", Mr. Wakabayashi said, "I know that
he (Hamaoka) met with Siddon, with Oberle, with the Alberta
Minister -- he really pleaded your case for you". "So he
definitely followed through with that part of it", Mr.
Wakabayashi said. "So he's done what he said he would do" Mr.
Wakabayashi said.
Chief Ominayak said "but that's not where the question lies".
"In so far as the earlier (March 7th) meeting", Chief Ominayak
said, "there was clearly an agreement made (that Daishowa would
stay out of the traditional Lubicon territory until there was a
settlement of Lubicon land rights and an agreement negotiated
with the Lubicon people regarding Lubicon wildlife and
environmental concerns)". Chief Ominayak said that he hoped Mr.
Hamaoka was not now trying to deny that there was an agreement
made at that point.
Mr. Wakabayashi said that Fred Lennarson's notes may vary from
his but that "the only notes I've got...is when Tom (Hamaoka)
explained the woods operation, the FMA (Forest Management
Agreement) was expected to go through a consultation series
specific to your area, not encroaching on those lands, (the)
possibility of mutual benefit for both, understand there's some
oil and gas exploration, camps for Brewster and Boucher, start-up
mill slated for the fall of 1990 and wood fall/winter 1989". He
said "we talked about that". He said "I wouldn't say that was
necessarily an agreement". "And", he said, "you just have to
check with people that I've been dealing with". He said "I keep
notes, I really do keep notes".
Fred Lennarson said that he also kept notes. He said that his
notes from the March 7th meeting indicated that Mr. Wakabayashi
had said he hoped Lubicon land rights would be settled by the
fall of 1989 when Daishowa wanted to cut timber in the unceded
Lubicon territory, that Chief Ominayak told Mr. Wakabayashi that
he also hoped there'd be settlement by the fall of 1989 but that
the Lubicon people had been seeking such an agreement for 50
years and therefore needed agreement from Daishowa that Daishowa
would make no attempt to cut trees in the traditional Lubicon
territory until there'd been both a land settlement and a
harvesting agreement, and that, at the end of the meeting,
Daishowa had agreed to stay out of the traditional Lubicon
territory until Lubicon land rights had been settled and a
wildlife and environmental protection agreement negotiated with
the Lubicon people. Fred Lennarson said during that meeting
Daishowa representatives had requested and had been subsequently
provided with a map showing the boundaries of the traditional
Lubicon territory, resulting in the exchange of correspondence
between Mr. Kitagawa and Chief Ominayak to which Mr. Wakabayashi
had earlier referred out of context, but, he reiterated, all of
this was now essentially beside the point.
By now, Fred Lennarson said, it was clear that the Lubicons would
never agree that there was no agreement and Daishowa would never
agree that there was. Pursuing the matter was merely aggravating
the situation without yielding useful results. The bottom line,
he said, and the point at which Daishowa and the Lubicons would
have to do business if at all was with regard to the Lubicon
position that there'd be no development of unceded Lubicon lands
at least until there is a settlement of Lubicon land rights.
And, he said, for all of Mr. Wakabayashi's fancy legalistic and
semantic games, it was his (Lennarson's) understanding that this
was the position of the representatives of the coalition as well.
Fred Lennarson said that he also clearly remembered the end of
the March 7th meeting. He said he remembered Mr. Wakabayashi
saying "We're peaceful people and we don't want any trouble". He
said that he remembered Mr. Wakabayashi saying further "We're
prepared to come and talk whenever the Lubicon people are ready".
He said that he remembered Chief Ominayak saying "We're peaceful
people too but we're committed to defending our vital interests".
And, he said, he remembered Chief Ominayak concluding the March
7th meeting by saying "We'll welcome you to our community to talk
once our aboriginal land rights have been settled".
Mavis Gillie said "It would have been nice to have a tape
recorder, wouldn't it, to keep an accurate record of what was
said".
Mr. Wakabayashi said that he had to go back to talking about the
March 7th meeting, which he described as "a kind of information
meeting". He said "We had just come into this project". He said
"We just not that long ago had been introduced to the negotiating
problems between the Lubicons and the Government".
Gillie asked "How long ago?"
Mr. Wakabayashi said that Daishowa decided to do a study of the
area in 1987.
Mavis Gillie said "Surely you would know". She said "God forbid
that business people would go in, and with this kind of
investment, the kind of stuff you were looking at, and not know
what the situation was -- not know that this had gone on".
Mr. Wakabayashi repeated that the Forest Management Agreement
signed with the Provincial Government supposedly excluded the
disputed area. He admitted that the Lubicon struggle had been
going on for a long time but said that "lots of other things have
been going on for a long time". He said "If we sat back and
tried to understand everything that's been going on, none of us
could do anything".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "This was in negotiations at the time". He
said "I mean you guys were hot and heavy in negotiations".
Fred Lennarson told Mr. Wakabayashi that there were no
negotiations with either level of Canadian Government going on at
that time. He said there'd been one meeting between Chief
Ominayak and Provincial Premier Getty during which the Premier
had agreed to support bi-lateral negotiations between the
Lubicons and the Federal Government. He said there were no
negotiations with the Feds at that point and weren't any until
December of 1988. And, he said, there were no negotiations even
contemplated at that time between the Lubicons and the Province.
Mr. Wakabayashi said that Mr. Kitagawa had asked Chief Ominayak
about negotiations during the March 7th meeting and that Chief
Ominayak said to use the word "negotiations" was "premature". He
said, referring to his meeting notes and supposedly quoting Chief
Ominayak, "Premier said he wants to settle, taking the initial
steps forward, time will tell if he's serious or not". "Now to
me", Wakabayashi said, "that's under negotiation". He asked if
Fred Lennarson didn't agree.
Fred Lennarson said that he didn't agree with Mr. Wakabayashi's
interpretation of what Chief Ominayak had supposedly said and
repeated that there were no negotiations with the Feds at that
point and no negotiations with the Province even contemplated.
Mr. Wakabayashi said "But he (Ominayak) did say that". He said
"I'm just trying to put into perspective the state in which that
(March 7th) discussion took place". He said "We understood you
guys were in negotiations".
Chief Ominayak suggested that Daishowa was perhaps led by the
Province into believing there were negotiations because Daishowa
was obviously unhappy over all of the negative publicity
occasioned by announcement that the Provincial Government had
sold trees from the unceded Lubicon territory to Daishowa.
Mr. Wakabayashi told Chief Ominayak "You said so yourself (that
there were negotiations)".
Chief Ominayak said "No I didn't." "What I said was that there
were no negotiations".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "Well I guess I'm just trying to set the
stage for the meeting, okay?" He said "This is the kind of
meeting it was". He said "You explained where you were and we
were kind of explaining where we were at".
Mavis Gillie said that "the unresolved aspect of that first
situation is very clear to me". "But whether it's called
negotiation or not", she said, "it seems to me that the position
of your company should be based upon some sense of what exactly
is the situation of the Lubicon people with the Government,
either Provincial or Federal". She said "It seems to me that at
that time, with Premier Getty saying that there was a need to
discuss with the Federal Government what would be a resolution to
the land claim -- that certainly leaves things up in the air for
the Lubicon people -- but the recognition of things being left
up in the air by a company such as yours could be affected by
withholding any further decisions to proceed with your contract
decisions for using the resources there".
Wakabayashi said "that's the reason why the pulp mill stayed on
the west side (of the Peace River)". He said "We are in
production, as you know, but we've stayed on the west side". He
said "You have to take that into consideration -- that we stayed
on the west side". He said "The bridge is delayed, as I said at
the outset, the bridge is delayed another year so obviously the
Peace River pulp mill is not going to be logging on that
(Lubicon) side".
Chief Ominayak asked "What about (wholly owned Daishowa
subsidiary) Brewster?"
Fred Lennarson asked "What about (Daishowa subcontractor)
Buchanan?"
"Buchanan", Mr. Wakabayashi said, "is a totally independent
sawmill". He said "You know that". He said "You also know that
Boucher is a totally independent saw mill".
Fred Lennarson said "with whom you (Daishowa) have contracts to
provide you with material (from the Lubicon territory) for your
Peace River pulp mill".
Mr. Wakabayashi said:
"Well, the wood chips, let's take the wood chips, okay?
Up until now they've been logging the coniferous trees
and they've been burning the residual. So, good forest
management, good ecological management, you go in and you
make chips out of it and process it. I mean, there's
nothing wrong with that, right? There's nothing
absolutely wrong with that. They now go in and there's
some incidental aspen that they harvest along with the
coniferous -- I mean, hey, it either stays there to rot,
because aspen you can only keep it there for two or three
years as you know, and it's not much good for anything.
It's being delivered into the (Peace River) pulp mill.
We don't deny that. But, you know, these are independent
people trying to make a living, Fred, you know, and
they've been there for a long time".
Fred Lennarson said "we have different perspectives on it but I
doubt belabouring the point will get us very far". "From our
point of view", he said, "it frankly looks like an effort on
(Daishowa's) part to circumvent the agreement".
Mr. Wakabayashi said:
"I think, for these (coalition) people, that's a great
forum, because I think you're hearing both sides, maybe,
but at least you're hearing both sides. And I think
that's important for you (coalition) people because
you've heard one side, and I think it's fair to hear our
side. And that's why when we're asked if, you know,
there are additional people coming, we said fine.
Because I think only through communications are we all
going to appreciate each other. Okay Chief, and that was
the intent with Koichi (Kitagawa) and Tom (Hamaoka), was
to open a line of communication, keep you advised, and,
as I say, the latest attempt to have communication with
you was for Wayne Thorp to explain to you what the
logging plans for Brewster were for this year, taking
into consideration the position that you guys are in and
the position you've taken. I'm hoping that what he's got
to talk to you about, you know, obviously in any
compromise situation, it's not 100%, but I think it
certainly takes into consideration what you people are
attempting to do. Okay?"
Chief Ominayak asked if Mr. Wakabayashi still claimed that
Brewster was independent.
Mr. Wakabayashi said "No, I didn't say Brewster right now. I
just said Boucher and I said Buchanan".
Chief Ominayak said that at a meeting last year Boucher said they
were told to log and give Daishowa the aspen. He said they were
supposed to clear-cut. Because of the jurisdictional dispute, he
said, Boucher decided not to come into the Lubicon territory. He
said that Bissell and Buchanan faced the same problem -- if they
didn't work the lease which they'd been given by the Provincial
Government in the unceded Lubicon territory, they have no source
of timber and they were threatened with not having their current
lease extended. He accused the Province of "playing games with
(the small logging companies) just like they're playing games
with (the Lubicons).
Mr. Wakabayashi denied that he was aware of Provincial Government
pressures on small logging companies to clear-cut in the unceded
Lubicon territory and provide the aspen to Daishowa. (Mr.
Wakabayashi's denials are hardly credible in light of the fact
that these pressures were publicly reported in the media last
fall during the controversy over Daishowa breaching the agreement
with the Lubicons.)
Fred Lennarson told Mr. Wakabayashi that Daishowa should
understand the Lubicon position applied to all resource
exploitation companies equally -- that it was not just directed
at Daishowa.
Mr. Wakabayashi said "We sure get the feeling it is".
Fred Lennarson said that the special attention given to Daishowa
related to the disproportionate threat posed by the huge
requirements of Daishowa's Peace River pulp mill -- 1,000 metric
tons of dehydrated pulp per day -- plus Daishowa's transparent
efforts to breach the agreement with the Lubicon people by
working through subcontractors and subsidiaries. He assured Mr.
Wakabayashi that any company posing such a significant threat and
behaving in such an untrustworthy fashion would receive similarly
special attention, although, he agreed, the basic cause of the
problem was the unresolved jurisdictional dispute between the
Province and the Lubicons. Until that basic jurisdictional
dispute was satisfactorily resolved, he said, everybody with an
interest in the area would face continuing problems.
Mr. Wakabayashi said that Daishowa knows there's a dispute. He
said that he obviously wasn't as articulate as Fred Lennarson but
what he was trying to convey "across the table is that there is a
difference between or a problem in being accused of not honouring
a commitment or an agreement". He said "That's one thing that's
very, very important to (Daishowa)". "As far as the physical
logging", he said, "as a pulp mill we have stayed on the west
side of the (Peace) river".
Chief Ominayak asked again about wholly owned Daishowa subsidiary
Brewster Construction. He said "They went on the other side".
Mr. Wakabayashi said:
"Well, I have to keep coming back to Brewster. I mean,
he was there. I don't disagree that it's a subsidiary of
Daishowa. I'm not disagreeing with that. But he was a
sawmill (located and in fact previously operating largely
to the east of the traditional Lubicon territory). He
was in operation. He hires so many people. For years
he's been cutting on that (east) side (of the Peace
River). We bought him. And all of a sudden he's now
looked upon as a totally different entity, you know, as
far as you're concerned Chief. And all we're asking is
the opportunity to let him continue doing his thing -- to
let people continue to do their thing".
Mavis Gillie said "But then Daishowa is doing THE THING." "It's
not Brewster anymore", she pointed out, "it's Daishowa doing THE
THING".
Wakabayashi asked "Are we supposed to buy these and shut them
down?"
Fred Lennarson said "You don't have to buy them in the first
place". He said "If Brewster was in there under its own flag and
wasn't a wholly owned subsidiary of Daishowa, but was still
bulldozing roads to clear-cut on (Ominayak's) trapline, then this
would be a problem -- whether they were owned by Daishowa or
not". However the fact is, he pointed out "They are owned by
Daishowa".
Mavis Gillie said "And Daishowa has got to take responsibility
for it -- you can't just shovel it under and say..."
Mr. Robertson said "Brewster was acquired because it had a chip
supply and Brewster wanted out". He said "He wanted to sell and
move on". He said "And he has a crew and a sawmill".
Chief Ominayak said Brewster told him that Brewster had to put in
a chipper as part of the take-over negotiations.
Mr. Robertson said "which was paid for by Daishowa".
Mr. Wakabayashi asked "Is there anything wrong with that, Chief?"
Chief Ominayak said "I'm just correcting you guys".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "Once you cut trees down it's stupid to burn
the residual". He said "You might as well make use of it,
right?" He asked, "Would you agree with that part?"
Fred Lennarson said "It is the Lubicon position that they don't
want the trees cut down period until at least the question of
aboriginal title is settled".
Mr. Morrison said "From the letters and correspondence that I've
seen coming in on this, the Brewster connection basically is said
to be, Brewster is a subsidiary of Daishowa and therefore it's
bound by an agreement, which -- from what I've heard today, and I
think you've conceded it Fred -- doesn't exist between Daishowa
and the Lubicons".
Fred Lennarson told Mr. Morrison that he'd conceded no such
thing. He said that Mr. Morrison lied more than he told the
truth. "When you say you feel bad about being told that you're
not honouring an agreement", he told Mr. Wakabayashi, "we don't
like to read in the press from (Mr. Morrison) that there is no
agreement when we all know there is an agreement".
Darryl Klassen asked how Daishowa "sees itself as a corporate
citizen with the very serious ethical questions involved". He
asked "Is it Daishowa's position that they'll walk the straight
and narrow as far as the government goes, and they'll make their
bucks and no problem". "Or", he asked, "is there going to be a
serious commitment by Daishowa to recognize that there is a very
serious ethical problem here and that Daishowa is a big ball
player who can throw some weight around with both the Federal and
Provincial Governments". "And to me", he said, "that would mean
Daishowa getting on board with the citizens, with the churches
and with the environmental groups so that the government will
start getting pressure from both sides, saying let's damn well
get this settled because it's wrong".
Mavis Gillie said "You could push Government -- you could refuse
to go along with the plans the Government has and say this has to
be settled".
Darryl Klassen said "If Daishowa shuts down the Peace River mill
for one week, it says to the Alberta Government you get this mess
cleaned up". "Then", he said, "there would be some pressure".
"But why would they settle now", he asked, "it's just Indians out
there in the bush".
Mr. Wakabayashi said that Chief Ominayak had asked Mr. Hamaoka to
meet with the Government and that Mr. Hamaoka had done so. He
said that the dispute had "been going on for a long time". He
said that there was "no superman in this room who can jump in and
resolve it".
Chief Ominayak said that he didn't ask Mr. Hamaoka to intervene.
He said Mr. Hamaoka proposed to make some calls and the Chief
said "fine, I don't have any problem with that". "If he wanted
to do that", Chief Ominayak said, "I told him by all means go
ahead".
"But that's what Darryl (Klassen) was asking", Mr. Wakabayashi
said. "Okay", he said, "Darryl was asking and we're saying it's
being done".
"Secondly", Mr. Wakabayashi said, "in terms of Brewster, I think
you should listen to what Wayne Thorp has to say about his
logging plans, because we are trying to accommodate, and I think
that's probably the best way to explain that".
Judy Nutley asked "What is the position of Daishowa with regard
to the (Federal) Government's position at this point with the
Lubicon people?" She said "It seems to me that things are at a
standstill between the Federal Government and the Lubicons".
Mr. Wakabayashi said "It's awfully hard for a third party to get
involved in these negotiations". He said "We can get in and
suggest to them that they should get it resolved, but we can't
get in and start arguing about the acreage or the money -- we
just don't have the ability to do that".
"What we have done", Mr. Wakabayashi said, "is that we've kept on
the west side (of the Peace River)". He said "We've kept away
from harvesting on your side".
"Now", Mr Wakabayashi said, "we'll go back to the subject of
Brewster". "Wayne Thorp", he said, "is doing whatever he can to
help you guys out so it creates less hassle for you and less
hassle for us".
Chief Ominayak said "I hope that Wayne is making all kinds of
plans not to cut any trees (in the traditional Lubicon
territory), because anything short of that and there's going to
be problems".
Mr Wakabayashi said "I can assure you that that isn't in his plan
-- he still has to cut trees". He said " I can't guarantee that
he's going to come and tell you that he's not going to cut any
trees".
Chief Ominayak said "I'm telling you my position, there's going
to be problems if there's any intention on the part of Daishowa
on cutting within our traditional area".
Fred Lennarson said that he wanted to make clear that the Lubicon
people were not now only talking about the small piece of
potential reserve land which the Government has unilaterally set
aside as part of a possible settlement which has not been
achieved. He said that the Lubicon people are going down the
drain while this land is supposedly protected as part of a
potential settlement agreement. He said "There has to be a
settlement agreement that includes some provision for the Lubicon
people to once again become economically self-sufficient. He
said that's been the Lubicon position all along. He said that
Mr. Hamaoka was sent some material this summer which included the
draft settlement which the Lubicons tabled last summer with the
Province. He said that this draft settlement agreement details
the elements of an acceptable Lubicon settlement agreement.
Mr. Wakabayashi said "Daishowa, out of the clear blue, isn't
going to be the one that settles the Lubicon and the Federal and
Provincial Government situation". He said "We'll certainly
help". He said "We'll certainly try to convince people to move
towards a settlement with you". "But", he said, "we can't get
involved in those negotiations". He said "We can only do what
you've asked and that is to press both governments to get it
settled".
Chief Ominayak said "Thanks for that Henry". He said "We weren't
saying that Daishowa could negotiate a settlement".
Chief Ominayak said "In all honesty, I think if Daishowa was
serious and wanted to deal with the rightful owner of those trees
or anything else in that territory, you should have come to the
Lubicon people in the first place, regardless of what position
either Government has taken".
Chief Ominayak said "I think we're just going over the same thing
time after time". He said "We all know that there was an
agreement made in the past which we had hoped Daishowa would have
been able to keep". "But in hearing you this afternoon", he
said, "I think we're wasting our time and we're wasting your time
and we're wasting everybody's time".
Chief Ominayak said "I hope next time we have an opportunity to
meet with Daishowa we will meet some people with some substance
who can make some decisions as to the direction your company
takes within our traditional area".
Chief Ominayak reiterated "From our position there is not going
to be any clear-cutting by anybody as long as the issue of our
aboriginal land rights is outstanding".
Chief Ominayak concluded the meeting by saying "And with that I
thank you for giving us the opportunity to meet with you, even
though there's no results".