Transcript of Lubicon Settlement Commission of Review Public Hearing, August 06, 1992 Little Buffalo Lake, Alberta NOTE: Tape was very poor quality and regularly inaudible as indicated by "..." Commission Members Present Jacques Johnson Jennifer Klimek Michael Asch Sandy Day Menno Wiebe Don Aitken John MacMillan Normand Boucher Colleen McCrory Commission Members Absent Regena Crowchild Wilfred Barranoik Theresa McBean Lubicon Representatives Present Chief Bernard Ominayak Councillors Dwight Gladue, Walter Whitehead, Michael Laboucan Community Members Advisor Fred Lennarson Other Present Dawn and Rod Hill from Mohawk Six Nations Nancy Yellowbird (Hobbema) Drs. Heinz Lippuner & Peter Gerber, Incomindios, Switzerland 3 representatives from Friends of the Lubicon (Toronto) Heinz Deitz & Georg Roloff, Germany Bernard Ominayak: I think what would be appropriate at this time would be to ask Father Johnson to do an opening prayer to the gathering here today... Jacques Johnson: In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Amen. God, good Creator and Father, we give you thanks for gathering us together this afternoon in Little Buffalo so that together, with an open mind, open heart, open spirit, we may seek together the truth and that we may grow in respect of your people everywhere in the world. We touch the light of your Holy Spirit so that we may, as Commissioners, listen well to what the people have to say and to give also to the people the freedom of their own Spirit so that they may feel free to speak what is in their hearts. We ask that all of us work towards justice and the well-being of the people and we pray also for government leaders, so that their minds and hearts may also be open to what is real and true and just and right. We ask this to you Father, through Jesus Christ, Your Son and Our Lord. Amen. Bernard Ominayak: (in Cree) Edward Laboucan: (in Cree) Bernard Ominayak: I've already thanked the people from the Samson Nation for coming here this afternoon. Again I want to take this opportunity to thank people for coming today. Edward Laboucan: (in Cree) Bernard Ominayak: That was Band Elder Edward Laboucan. He was welcoming all you people here today and thanking you for taking the time to come here today. He's glad that you people had an opportunity to go visit the place where we used to live (Lubicon Lake). We hope we'll see the day when we move back to where we came from. We haven't been successful thus far in trying to get something for our people, but he hopes that with all the help a lot of other people have given us, that we're able to succeed and he hopes that the kind of an agreement that our people are looking for will benefit our people in the long run. He believes that the Creator will see the problems the people face and that at some point there's going to be better days for the Lubicons. He's not making any other statement at this point but rather is welcoming you people and thanking you for being here today. With that, I think what I'll do is turn it over to the Commissioners and maybe ask them, first of all, to introduce themselves, or have one of their people introduce them. I'd rather have community people make presentations from here rather than me talking. They've heard me already for a number of hours and I don't think they want to do that again. I think they'd rather hear from you at this point. I think the people from Samson that were here today, they already made their presentation to the Commission in support of the Lubicoon people. They also recognized that the Commission is valid and they stated that there's a lot of other Native people within this Province and outside of this Province who are glad that there is such a Commission set up to look and see what are the different positions of the three parties concerned -- our position and why the governments can't or haven't moved thus far to enable our people to start building our own future. We still hope that day is possible. So I'll ask you to introduce yourselves or have someone introduce you. Jacques Johnson: As Co-Chair of the Lubicon Settlement Commission of Review, I am very happy to be here today. Also I'm happy to see a good number of the Commissioners present. There are 3 who were not able to make it, but I think this is probably the largest representation of Commissioners at any hearing so far we've had this year. I'm Jacques Johnson. I'm an Oblate Priest in Edmonton. I would like to ask the different Commissioners to introduce themselves. Menno Wiebe: My name is Menno Wiebe from Winnipeg, working on behalf of the Aboriginal Rights Council, the inter-church group that addresses aboriginal rights across the nation. Actually I was ready to introduce a motion here before we get too serious. I was going to make a motion of adjournment with the proviso that we would go back to Lubicon lake and join Summer Joe and Edward Laboucan over there under the arbour where the breeze came right across the lake. I guess that's the proposed site of the settlement. It was so very pleasant over there. We really appreciate the opportunity to see that. I hope we have a good afternoon. Sandy Day: My name is Sandy Day. I'm from High River. It's just south of Calgary. I have a small environmental business and have been involved in environmental issues on a full-time basis for probably the past eight years. John MacMillan: I'm John MacMillan from Peace River. I think you guys know where Peace River is. I'm just a truck driver or a cat skinner, one or the other. Normand Boucher: I'm Norm Boucher. We have a sawmill in Nampa as most of you know. I'm more than happy to sit on this board and try to help the Lubicon. Jennifer Klimek:; I'm Jennifer Klimek. I'm from Edmonton. I'm a lawyer in Edmonton. Colleen McCrory: I'm Colleen McCrory from southwestern British Columbia, Silverton, B.C., in the ...valley, which is the Coquitny area 0f B.C. I've worked on forestry issues and also native issues. Michael Asch: My name is Michael Asch. I'm a professor in the Anthropology Department at the University of Alberta. I teach anthropology... Don Aitken: My name is Don Aitken. I'm the President of the Alberta Federation of Labour. It's my pleasure to sit on this Commission and to be here today. Jacques Johnson: Thank you very much. This afternoon our expectations were great and yet very open-ended. We did not know for sure -- our expectations were to come and to be with you and to see and to hear you out. We certainly have questions that we want to raise also to yourselves, to your Council, to your Chief, especially regarding the federal government's new proposal that was handed to the Chief by Mr. Siddon a couple of weeks ago, I believe. If you have anything to tell us about your reactions to it, we'd be very happy to hear you out. So before we ask any questions at all, we're here principally to listen to you and we would welcome anybody who'd like to make a statement to do so. I have here before me -- I saw this on the table -- a statement of the Lubicon Lake Nation Women. There's also one here by Dawn Hill, Mohawk Six Nations. Perhaps if we could have some people make those presentations verbally and would those copies go to the members of the Commission? Bernard Ominayak: My understanding, Father, is that the people themselves -- like the ladies and whoever is here to make the presentations -- will be making the presentations. These are only copies that are available for you people. We're a little ahead of ourselves here. With that, maybe what I'll do, because I believe in equal rights, I would like to give this opportunity to the ladies who have prepared a brief statement, to present their statement, and maybe following that up, I would like to welcome Dawn to say a few words. After that then we'll get some of the Elders to make a few remarks also. After that what we can do is maybe allow some time for questions that may come from the Commission people. So I would welcome the ladies to make any kind of comments or presentation or whatever they want to do. The floor is open. Violet Rose Ominayak: My name is Violet Ominayak. I'd like to read this statement of the Lubicon. STATEMENT OF THE LUBICON LAKE NATION WOMEN We the women of Lubicon Lake Nation are tired. We are frustrated and angry. We feel we cannot wait another minute to have our land claim settled. Fifty years is too long. In those 50 years we have watched our land and lives be destroyed by Canadian governments and corporations. Our children are sick from the drinking water that oil has spilled in. They are sick from breathing the poisoned, polluted air the pulp mill has made. We are sick from eating the animals -- animals that are sick with diseases from the poisoned plants and water. Our children have nothing -- they can't breath -- even that has been taken. Their culture, the bush life, has been destroyed by development. When we were young we lived in the bush -- it was a good life. Now, we have no traplines, nothing to hunt. There are no jobs, no money to live a decent life. We see ourselves, our men and children fall into despair, hopelessness, low self- esteem and drinking. Families are broken up like never before. Drinking and violence rise as our spirits fall. We live our lives in constant danger. Since the blockade we have been afraid to go to certain places in town. Our sons have been beaten by white men when they say they are Lubicon. We are even afraid to say that we are who we are! The roads are dusty and dangerous to travel. The logging and oil trucks try to run us off the roads. We are afraid of the roads. We have lost young ones because of accidents on the horrible roads. We are not even safe in the bush. We are afraid to go in the bush because the white sports hunters shoot at anything that moves. We ask why? Why us? What have we done to deserve such treatment? Why can't the government settle with the Lubicon? Why have they spent so much time and energy trying to destroy us rather than deal fairly with us? What have we done, our children, our people? What wrong have we done to the outside? We are not dogs, but we are treated like dogs. We are people just like you. We are equal. We have every right to be here, the Creator put us here in this place. We are important. Our children are important -- our future. We have lost more than your money can ever, ever buy -- more than you can imagine, our way of life that we loved, our culture, our beautiful land, our health, our happiness. What else can we lose? The Lubicon women demand an end to the physical, emotional, economic, cultural and spiritual destruction. We demand an end to the invasion and devastation to all spheres of our lives. We demand an end to the government and corporation warfare with our lands and lives. We demand an end to the mockery of our Nation! We demand an end to the genocide. We demand control over our lives once again. Hear our voice and our message -- we don't know if we'll be here tomorrow. Personally I'd like to say that I hate to see the younger generation to go through the struggles that we, the older people, went through. That's all I have to say. Bernard Ominayak: I'd like to thank Rose for her presentation. But maybe if there are questions before we get too far from her remarks -- if there are questions by the Commission at this point to the ladies, maybe we should allow those questions at this point before we get too far from it. Jacques Johnson: Rose Ominayak, I would like to thank you on behalf of the Commission for a very, very moving and a very challenging statement that you made. It took a lot of courage to speak on behalf of the women of the Lubicon Cree Nation. To hear the cry of your heart, you've opened a page into the lives of the Lubicons that few of us have had the opportunity to read before. I would like to thank you for your courage and your truthfulness. I would like to ask any member of the Commission if they would have something to ask the women of the Lubicon Cree Nation? Colleen, you have the floor. Colleen McCrory: You touched on the very human aspect of what's going on here. It must be very painful to know that these things are still going on. I guess what I'd like to touch on is from your perspective, I don't know what woman wants to answer this, in terms of since the blockade I'd like to hear some of the incidents that have happened to you with regard to industry in your community. You talk about the logging trucks trying to run you off the road. Is that a common occurrence that happens in this community? Can anyone answer that? Violet Ominayak: When we meet these big trucks on the road, they don't go to the side for us. It's just like they own the road. Any kind of truck, chip trucks and oil trucks. ?: In terms of the social problems that I know just from what I've read...hearing in your voice the despair and hopelessness and low self- esteem...is the federal government doing anything at all to help your community at this point...I know what's happening here. What do you see as the solution? Bernard Ominayak: I guess we're caught in a situation where there is very little movement by way of trying to deal with, for example, problems within the community because of all the fighting that's going on day in and day out, both with the governments and then we're faced with -- as the ladies pointed out -- the harassment that does take place whether in Peace River or Red Earth or any of these little towns where our people have to go. Under different circumstances, for example...the only place we've got for shopping and other things. But I think the bigger problem comes in with alcohol and that is involved where we have a community that's faced with 90% or better welfare -- the problem exists in the community and then it goes beyond that when we're outside of our community where a lot of our members are faced with a lot of these different things where you've got some bad reaction by people who are out working in the oil development, and also to a certain degree, by the people who are interested in logging or looking for work within the logging aspect of this area. So we have those factions within the different communities outside of our community. I think that's what Rose and the ladies have pointed out. I think there's been a number of accidents just recently where chip trucks which are going night and day on the roads here and all the dust and our guys are on the same road too. These guys figure they own the road so we've had a number of serious accidents that have occurred in recent times. I guess we can go on with all the different kinds of social problems that exist within the community. For example, we have ladies who are having babies prematurely, and still-births and all these things. They are all problems I guess which may exist to a certain degree in other communities but it's something that's new to us in these last 10 or 12 years. While everybody's extracting resources off our lands and making all kinds of money off our lands, we're subject to welfare. From the legal point of view, there's no question we have a legal right to be here and we have a legal right to our lands, to our homelands, to the resources that these lands may contain. So what we see is just outright stealing by the oil development and now Daishowa with their plans to clear-cut is going to finish everything off. It's unfortunate that Daishowa has refused the opportunity to appear before you. Nevertheless, we're here and hopefully we can build a better understanding between the community and yourselves. I didn't want to jump in and take over when the ladies had appeared before, but I just am trying to bring everything into perspective about what is being said... Colleen McCrory: One other question, and then I'll leave it to someone else - - with regards to Daishowa, do you know is there any kind of overall plan that you can look at what the impact would be over 20 years? They always give you five year management working plans -- do you have a view of what 20 years of logging will do? Will you lose 50% of the area or 75%? Is that documented anywhere? Bernard Ominayak: Not so much documented, per se, but we've seen the areas where there's been clear-cut logging practiced in the past. For example, there's a lot of it in British Columbia and other Provinces that have been subject to clear-cut logging practices. If you're talking to Daishowa who are in the business of clear-cut logging, they sound as if they can do better than the Creator. They talk about the trees that they are going to plant in the ground. It's like it's going to start growing before they put it in the ground. So you've got all this rhetoric coming at you. But nevertheless, we've seen the kinds of destruction that has taken place when there's no regard for regulations pertaining to wildlife and the environment in general. What we've seen by way of reforestation isn't there. There's a lot of acres just back in here where they've gone in 15 years ago or 20 years ago, and you don't see no spruce there. But supposedly they've got this high-bred spruce that's going to start growing as soon as they bring it over from Japan, with a success rate that just isn't possible. Also, it's not only replanting the forests, which is certainly important, but rather we've got to see what kind of environment there will be. If they take all the trees, what do you do? How do you best bring that back? Or is it possible to bring it back? I don't believe that any human being's going to be able to compete with the Creator in what He provided. There's a lot of concerns from here about the water. We've checked into the water -- if the dioxins and poisons that Daishowa's putting into the water are going to kill the fish. Now, how far does that go. These are all the different things that we have to look at. So far we've been told that there's no money to do that kind of a study by the Alberta Government... ?: It's rumored that Daishowa is going to expand their logging, double their capacity... Bernard Ominayak: From our perspective we've got to expect there's going to be destruction resulting from whatever approach is being employed by the pulp mills that exist in Alberta. If the pulp mills get bigger, that means bigger destruction. That's the basic position that we have to look at, because in reforestation, there may be some places where it worked, but we haven't been able to see that and to be able to say, compare, clear-cut areas versus a natural area. I don't think there would be any comparison, unless you get into the best possible way of logging that we've been able to look at -- selective logging. Now from their point of view, that's too slow a process, it's not economically possible. But I certainly can't sit here and argue for Daishowa saying they can't do this or that, but from our point of view, the perspective of the guy that has been subject to a lot of these conditions and also has survived off the land for a lot of years, then having the outside people come in and destroy everything in a very short span of time is a terrible thing. Jacques Johnson: I would like to give the floor to other people, but I think our concern right now is the women. Any questions to the women? Michael Asch? Michael Asch: Thank you for your presentation. I was wondering whether the women have sat down either themselves or with other people to think about if you get a settlement, what kind of economics and areas are you interested in? Any comments? Violet Ominayak: We just had our first meeting yesterday... Jennifer Klimek: Rose, first of all, I'd like to thank you for your presentation today. I think one thing it brought to us...it's important that a human face is put on it...I think there's some room for that being brought to the public. Have you got any plans as a women's group on how to take your concerns from a very human, personal, emotional point of view -- so you don't just get bogged down over and over again as to dollars and cents. Have you got plans for that? Sandy Day: I too wanted to thank you. It's not an easy story to hear, the emotion in your hearts. I guess that's why we're here, to try and help. I'd carry on in Jennifer's vein and ask if letters could be sent. I think you'd see the support of some of the other Nations, perhaps there could be support from other areas as well...this information has to get out to the people... Menno Wiebe: We heard a very good presentation by a delegation of nine people from Little Buffalo, which included the women also but you have now spoken on behalf of the women's organization. Our job as Commissioners is to hear well and to write faithfully what we heard and then presumably to make a recommendation. Hopefully that recommendation will help. What recommendation do you want us to recommend from the women's point of view -- what do you want us to recommend at the end of our report? Violet Ominayak: We need a fair and just settlement. Menno Wiebe: That's number one? And with that, you're assuming that the other problems with the breakdowns, problems with the roads, etc. will be easier once you have that? Violet Ominayak: Yes. Menno Wiebe: To get the claim settled. John MacMillan: I think the road probably should have been paved 4 years ago with the amount of money that the oil people have extracted from this area...There's always going to be trucks, logging trucks...like I say, it should have been done 5 years ago with the amount of money extracted from the area...there was a good road here before the oil companies... Don Aitken: First of all, Rose, I'd like to thank you for your presentation and to tell you that I feel ashamed to be a Canadian. I've had the opportunity to travel around the world and visit third world countries and seen conditions that are appalling, but to see this in our own back yard when we have so much in this country and we've taken so much from you, it just makes me feel ashamed. I think it really brings an urgency home for us to do something about. I think it's important that people like the Prime Minister of Canada...and people with responsibility to take this seriously...we cannot put it aside. I'd just like to know, what kind of support services are now available, or are there any support services available? With the kind of genocide that you're talking about here, things just seem to be going downhill. It doesn't seem to be coming to a halt. It's one thing to have a bad situation, but if it keeps getting worse, where is it going to stop? I think we have to make sure that as much as possible, that we bring attention to it, that we stop it and reverse it. Are there support services presently available or that could be available or is there something that we could do in the interim? I guess I feel a lot of frustration from your people and from other people. I was just wondering what... Bernard Ominayak: In so far as support services, there's very little that we have. What you've got to keep in mind in trying to deal with problems...(change tapes)...changes in diet. For example, we have people used to berries and things which were part of the diet. But now we go there to pick those berries and we've either got a well there or a pipeline. The berries are no longer there. So the people are eating a different diet altogether. Those kinds of changes and those kinds of social problems that exist in this community are hard to deal with at this point. As a leader, it's always hard for me to identify and deal with any specific problem that any specific people in the community have, but in the overall sense we try and keep it at least manageable to a certain degree, we're partially dealing with all the problems at all times, keeping in mind that there's a lot of restrictions as to what's possible at this point. I for one knowing that if and when it is at all possible to get a fair and just settlement for our people, it isn't going to be the answer to all of our problems at this point. It's going to be a long haul before we're able to get back to where we came from ten or twelve years ago. But I still have hope that it's going to be possible at some point for our people to get back on their own two feet, if it is possible to achieve some of the plans that we have. Jacques Johnson: Thank you, Bernard. I was thinking about the statement of the women and the Commission is receiving your statement with gratitude and emotion, I might add. I would like to suggest that if there are members of the media who would like a copy of this important document that I think the Commission would be happy, I'm sure, to let you have a copy of that. I don't know if there is anything else that members of the Commission would like to ask the women of the Lubicon Cree Nation? Bernard Ominayak: Keep in mind that there's still one or two presentations to be made. Jacques Johnson: Maybe we should move on then? Dawn Hill: I'd like to also thank Rose and the women that were too shy to come up that collectively wrote the letter. I think the power of women is very, very important to any Nation's struggle and that it's really great to see you moving and to hear what you have to say and to be heard. I think that's very important. To the Commission, I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Dawn Hill from Six Nations. I'm a Mohawk. I'm also almost an anthropologist, but I'm speaking to you today as a Mohawk person rather than as an academic. I wrote a statement but I don't know how much I'll stick to it. I'm sure that you have heard of the Confederacy of the Iroquois people. I am a member of that traditional government. We have our own philosophies, our own constitution. We have a constitution that demands that we are obligated to other Nations. Given that, many of our people have visited here...intermittently since the blockade. Through myself, through several other members of the Confederacy, we have been reporting to our government and trying to understand why it is the way it is out here. We've been monitoring, we've sent letters to the government, we've sent letters to the corporations. If you have toured the community, you've heard from the women, which I have heard from many times -- I guess you can imagine the stage that they're at. It is a warning that things are getting to a very, very serious state and that these people are beginning to feel like the only way they are going to be heard, or the only way they are going to get anywhere is if they make a more aggressive stand. We all hope and pray that it will never come to that. And we're still praying that it never, ever comes to that. As a Mohawk I can speak to how little violence actually does solve any problems, as seen by our situation back home. However that is a reality in this community, and I've been here quite a bit in the last 4 years. I have seen many of the people that started out very, very trusting, very quiet, very peaceful, become very, very hard and fall into despair. That's not an easy thing to witness without becoming utterly angry and (wonder) why this government can continue to do what it does to Native people. We have reviewed the new government proposal and we have found it not as sincere as we had all hoped, but then again that's the Lubicon's position, not ours. We're simply here to support them in every way possible. Our people are prepared to support them in any way possible, in any way that they asked. So far they have asked for moral and spiritual support which we have tried very hard to provide given very little resources to work with. As Rose talked about the problems within the community, right now these people are hanging on with their heart and soul. That's about all they have to work with. There is nothing. There are no services. All there are is good-hearted people to come out there and hold their hand and get through one more day of what's put on them. I've sat with people who have lost a great deal, late at night, and listened to their stories, and they are so tragic that I probably wouldn't be able to tell you even one of them. I can tell you that even one person in here hasn't been touched by tragedy again and again. They don't even have time to recover from the last one when another happens. So her cry is very, very real. It's all because of greed. There's billions of dollars, this land has more than enough to provide for what they're asking. It's absurd that they're forced to live through what they are. As a Native person, a Native woman, I for one will stand by them in any decision that they make, and I will try to help them because I believe it's a human rights struggle. It has to be from my perspective one of the worst cases of human rights abuse that I've ever witnessed or I've ever documented. What I wanted to highlight was the human cost. As you said, a lot of what's gotten out there has been legal. It's been wrangling over band membership, over things that really don't mean too much to the average person. We just see a lot of legal jargon about aboriginal rights. It really boils down to the simple fact that these people were here, it's their land, they haven't received anything for it and they're being attacked. New bands are being created to try and destroy them. There's a section of the Indian Act that empowers the Minister with complete authority over who is aboriginal, who you are, band membership. That goes against everything that you hear in the media about self-government. So I hope that you see that kind of legislation all through from the caveat on to using Section 17 and paying people $1,000. I know women that have been told if they sign up with the Woodland Cree they'll receive $1,000 per head. You tell that to somebody who's making $300 a month to get by. It really is a brutal way to deal in a democratic society with the people who really have done nothing to deserve it. With that I would just ask you to take back what you have seen...think about it in terms of how hard it is for these people to hang on day by day. And why should people like myself and the people that have been coming out here to support them spend all our resources and all our energy to hold somebody's hand through another tragedy, when we would be more than happy to turn around and use our skills to help them do whatever it is that they want to do. It is a complete drain of money and human resources. I'd like to say that I hope that the women do continue to meet and to work. But then I also understand their position that they don't really feel comfortable in the outside world. As you can see they didn't even want to get up here. They have a lot more things to do here than to run around the country and tell the story of their tragedy. That's not the easiest thing to do. So I would try to at times do that for them, to relieve them of some of the struggle. They should be able to have some kind of resources to start building their future rather than social services to put a band-aid on a very big wound. I think it really is up to people like you to make that difference because I think as aboriginal people we have done just about everything within our means to get these people some help, to get them recognition world-wide, and it's gotten nowhere. It's up to Canadians and it's up to the Canadian Government and it's up to your Commission to see how quickly they can get a fair settlement, not a settlement that will leave them on welfare and leave them absolutely no economy, but a settlement that is fair. I really urge you to do that.